political demons

Gloria Purvis on division in the church

I thought now would be a good time to repost my interview with Gloria Purvis for America magazine from back in 2020. Here are some excerpts:

SA: As a talk show host for EWTN and a vocal pro-life advocate, your name has become well-known in traditional Catholic circles. Some in those circles have been struggling with, and several actively pushing back against, your being vocal about racial inequality. How do you navigate that kind of pushback?

GP: First of all, my allegiances are to Jesus Christ. Because of that, I’m not afraid to speak the truth on these matters. People know that I deeply believe in the inherent dignity of the human person. Most people know me through my advocacy for the unborn child and for women in crisis. They know that I speak using language that they understand, and it helps them understand that racial justice is the same thing—it springs from the dignity of the human person. I talk about police brutality and the abuse of police power using that language to help them see the connection. 

Now, some people get uncomfortable. There is a crowd of people who have let American politics influence the lens of their faith, rather than using the lens of their faith to look at politics. Instead of being able to hear that you’re advocating for a culture of life, they can only hear it in terms of a political point of view. 

I try to continually remind people of the Gospel imperative for why we visit the sick, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless. We do these things because these are acts of love. How can we say we have an authentic witness when we turn a blind eye to a person being murdered in the streets by a paid agent of the state. How similar is it that [Catholics] would like the child in the womb to have legal protections, and not allow the state to fund what they consider killing this child in the womb? The state is not supposed to take our lives—it’s supposed to protect us. Nothing that person can do, or has done, can diminish the truth that they are made in the image and likeness of God and are worthy of dignity and respect. They too have a right to life and a right to a natural death. Either we’re going to stand on that principle or our witness is not true. 

It’s one thing to talk to other people and want them to convert. It’s another thing to look at yourself and say, “I’m the one in need of conversion.” That’s what I’m inviting people to do.

SA: And this is why I think your voice is getting lost, or at least misconstrued, in the noise of our current political situation. Your advocacy for racial justice is coming from a pro-life ethic rooted in the church’s teaching. But that ethic doesn’t fit so neatly into mainstream political boxes. Why do we idolize our party loyalty over our belonging to Christ’s Body?

GP: We are seduced by temporal power. We fear not being in power, and we fear persecution. But this is what it means to be Christian. We understand that to follow Christ, you’re going to carry a cross. While it would be nice to be in power, it should not be at the price of what is good and holy and true. No political party is perfect. I keep saying that no matter who’s in the White House come Nov. 3, Jesus Christ is still on the throne. We should take comfort in that. What I would call a demonic confusion has been set upon our people, by our making idols out of political parties, and it is only through a recommitment to the Gospel, a recommitment to Christ that we can get rid of this chaos, get rid of this demon. 

The background of having a family of Black people living in the United States in the South, in Texas… we never could look to the government for real protection. Having lived through slavery, abolition, reconstruction… the hostility toward our existence, our ability to move about unencumbered and not having the protection of the law. But we still trusted in God, and we persevered. [Why are we willing] to jettison who we are for something as small as temporal political power? Do we serve a mighty God or not? I know that we do. Our role is not to serve political ideology, but to serve Jesus Christ. And that may not mean that we are going to be comfortable. But the Cross isn’t comfortable. As soon as it’s comfortable I start to question whom we are serving.

…

SA: You keep mentioning the role that “demonic confusion” plays in all of this. I know plenty of Catholics that get squeamish at the mention of the devil. The Greek name for the devil, diabolos, literally means the one who divides. That’s exactly what racism does. I’m happy that you’re not afraid to put it bluntly. 

GP: To not recognize that there is an enemy of the human person is to go into battle completely unarmed and unprepared. We end up battling each other over foolishness when we have this common enemy that would love for us to join him in hell. This is why it’s so important to pray, to read Scripture, to fast, to go to the sacrament of reconciliation and to go to Mass. Right now, a lot of us are having to watch Mass virtually. But that desire to go, when it's pure and good, is so pleasing to God. This is a time of spiritual growth, a time of looking inwards, a time of communing with God. Hopefully, we develop that habit so that when we’re able to move about, we’ve developed our interior life to such a degree that what’s going on in the world won’t shake us. 

…

SA: Where would you say Christ is most concretely present for you right now?

GP: When I look interiorly and wait on him. You’re waiting on someone that you love, and he knows you’re waiting. You’re okay in the waiting because you know he’ll come eventually.

SA: Sounds a lot like John of the Cross’ Spiritual Canticle, when you know that the Beloved is coming, but there’s still the pain of longing, the pain of that lack.

GP: Yes. But in the time that you spent there just thinking about him, his beauty, his goodness, his love, and the time that you’re asking him to help you… [tearing up] When you just love him so much that the suffering becomes this sweetness. And you want to take some of that off of him because you love him. I wish I could use better words to help you understand the answer to that question of how he is concretely real to me. I don’t know how to explain it. But he’s there and he’s real.

Read the whole interview here.